What Does Support For Israel Really Mean?

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by KWSeeks

First of all whether Israel belongs there or not can be debated. Just read your Bible (if you have one). I see comments like "Israel got themselves into a jamb"is obsurd. Since 2009 there have been over 8,000 rockets lobbed from Gaza. I think Israel has shown great restraint simply because we asked them to. Our leaders are afraid of terrorists. instaed of showing strength. We try to appease them. I would have been in there kicking ass after the first rocket.

No it can't be debated. Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land and there is nothing to 'debate' about that. Palestinians do have a valid grievance as their land was taken by force of arms during the creation of the state of Israel and subsequent expansionism by Israel such as in 1967. It all stems from that....and although there have been crimes and atrocities on both sides, Israel is the original transgressor in all this.

Originally Posted by KWSeeks

The reason land was given to Israel after 1946 is because it belonged to them in the first place. The Temple Mount is named because the Holy Temple used to sit where a mosque now sits. Being an ally means we commit to stand by them. How good is our word. Does loyalty mean nothing any more.

Claiming that Israel has a right to be there based on what the Bible says is as ludicrous as it comes. You clearly know very little about the conflict. Here, please educate yourself before stepping up to the microphone.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

[madmax]

Originally Posted by KWSeeks

Our leaders are afraid of terrorists. instaed of showing strength. We try to appease them. I would have been in there kicking ass after the first rocket.

Our leaders??? WTF are you talking about? This is mainly Israel's problem - are you saying Netanyahu is "afraid of terrorists"? Are you Israeli?

By the way, you may have a Bible, but get a book on grammar and sentence structure.

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by madmax

- are you saying Netanyahu is "afraid of terrorists"?

He should be used to them... as most of the Israeli government are terrorists!

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by KWSeeks

Since 2009 there have been over 8,000 rockets lobbed from Gaza.

...and how many missiles do you think Israel has fired at the Palestinians...or don't they count?

and in 2008, SEVEN Israelis died from rocket fire compared to ELEVEN HUNDRED Palestinians killed by Israeli air strikes - that's a kill ratio of 1:157.

[Stevomeo]

Originally Posted by Wouldhe

Obviously from the discussion here it is VERY complicated and a difficult situation to resolve. I see no solution at this point. It appears there will have to be a war and the spoils go to the victor.

Agreed. I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why the UN hasn't acted upon Israel's alleged theft of Palestinian lands.

[Stevomeo]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Your 'valid point' seems to be something along the lines of ' Israel has held the stolen land for so long now that we might as well let them keep it and the Palestinians will just have to live with it'.

The USA and Britain are backers of Israel...what's your point?
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...els-atrocities
http://www.globalresearch.ca/targeti...cialty/5312190

Again, what is your point? How does any of that justify Israel stealing and occupying land that does not belong to them? If there was no occupation of Palestinian land there would be no fighting and hence, no backing by 'terrorist' organisations. Also, let's not lose sight of the fact that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Remember that America considered Osama bin Laden to be a 'freedom fighter' when he was fighting the Russians. As long as he was doing what he was told, America was more than willing to prop him up with both weapons, money and intelligence. So please tell us what difference you see in Osama bin Laden carrying out terrorist attacks on the invading Russians and being backed by the USA and the Palestinians carrying out attacks against the invading Israelis and being backed by Hamas. Your double standards are showing pal!

So what would you do bro....place your few worn out, decrepit weapons in an open field to face the might of the Israeli army? C'mon man, get real here will you.

Does that differ in some way to the Israelis wanting to annihilate Arabs?

You'd best keep away from this my friend. But if you insist, I'd be happy to shoot you down in flames on that particular subject. Feel free to come over to the Religion forum and give us your examples of where the Qur'an advocates what you say.

Some of you American see anything that opposes your idea of 'democracy' as a threat.

Well I'm not sure if it would work either mate but I am sure that until they do it, there will be no peace in that area.

Why should it be split in half?? Put it back as it was before the Zionist expansion programme or as it was before the 1967 Israeli invasion.

I understand what you are saying old horse but frankly, those problems belong to the Israelis. They should have thought about such things before the began the aggression. It would be difficult granted but not impossible.

When India and all the other countries stolen by imperialist Britain wanted their lands back, we gave it to them. We didn't say 'Oh dear! Its so difficult!! What about moving all those to the countrys the people would want to live in and what about the infrastructure. What about all the official government buildings and such? What about the people who have jobs in each respective country?

My friend! You are wasting your energy with this because nobody, least of all me, is denying that the Palestinians are firing rockets into Israel. What you are losing sight of OR deliberately ignoring is the REASON WHY the Palestinians are firing rockets into Israel.

OK...so tell us what you would do. You have a couple of badly made and inaccurate rockets as your defence against a barrage of highly sophisticated, highly accurate laser guided missiles. Where are you going to launch your rockets from? Are you going to set them all up in an open area such as a field where they will all be wiped out with a single strike from a laser-guided weapon - or are you going to make it as difficult as possible for them to be destroyed? Tell us what you would do if you were directing the Palestinian attack against a highly sophisticated, heavily armed invading army. The Palestinians are fighting a guerilla campaign and in guerilla campaigns you do not stand face to face with the enemy.

Do you think the French Resistance in WWII were wrong to hide amongst the people??

The last I heard from the BBC last night was that there had been three Israeli deaths. But even if I give you five, compare that with over 120 Palestinians killed. Retaliation comparable to the attack??? I don't think so!

It's because they are being supported by America and Britain who veto any action against them. Do you know how much money your country piles into Israel whilst your own citizens are losing their jobs and being forced to live off hand-outs from soup kitchens??

"....the US is giving Israel $3 billion in direct foreign aid every year and, according to Congressman James Traficant, another $12-17 billion in indirect aid such as valuable military equipment deemed “scrapped,......”
http://thebilzerianreport.com/how-mu...rage-american/

Possibly... but I think only after an Israeli withdrawal.

Probably because they think that if they take them in, Israel will have even more undefended, empty land to plant their flag on.

Terrorists tie bombs to women and children and send them into public areas to kill civilians. I would hope that little description differentiates the difference between the Palestinians and Jews. To the best of my knowledge the Israelis do not engage in such acts, nor due they sever the heads of their enemies, publicly execute people, etc.......

You're mistaken if you believe that I am justifying the theft of land. This situation is much more complicated than meets the eye, as we all know. My point is if international law is being violated via the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands, where is the intervention of the international authorities, i.e., the UN? Aren't there better ways to remedy this than to commence lobbing bombs at the civilian population of Israel? I find it hard to believe that the US and Brittain can stop the UN from intervening in the situtation, but I could be wrong.

It's news to me that the Jewish/Israeli doctrine involves the annihilation of any group of people?

I agree with your take on Afghanistan. Definitely a double standard. The USSR and the US both entered that country with the same intentions. We backed the fighters there because America didn't want communism to spread into that region.

I'm not getting into discussions about Islam. The information is out there for all to see. All one has to do is look at Western Europe and see how the Muslim invasion is working there, specifically in the Netherlands.

As far as China is concerned. I fail to understand why they are engaged in the largest military buildup the world has ever seen. Given their track record and lack of ethics I do not trust them. I don't know of any country that is a threat to their security, so a little paranoia from a cold warrior like myself is warranted. My prediction is that they will expand their borders in the next 10 years, and it won't just be a tiny country like Tibet either.

[KWSeeks]

It Is because most of the world beleives that it belongs to Isreal. I suggest you all research the establishment of the State of Isreal and the establishment of Palestine. Isreal occupied that land until they were exiled. In 1948 the UN recognized the legal State of Isreal and their right to the land. The State of Palestine is still not recognized by the UN. They are a sitting member only(observer only). You guys are typical. Instead of checking your facts you try to personally insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. I thought was in an intelligent discussion. Obvously I was mistaken. You guys can have this forum to yourselves. I am gone

[evileye]

Originally Posted by KWSeeks

It Is because most of the world beleives that it belongs to Isreal. I suggest you all research the establishment of the State of Isreal and the establishment of Palestine. Isreal occupied that land until they were exiled. In 1948 the UN recognized the legal State of Isreal and their right to the land. The State of Palestine is still not recognized by the UN. They are a sitting member only(observer only). You guys are typical. Instead of checking your facts you try to personally insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. I thought was in an intelligent discussion. Obvously I was mistaken. You guys can have this forum to yourselves. I am gone

So by that standard if the UN decided the USA was to be given completly back to the native peoples of the North American continent would you say it is a good thing? How about if a family who owned the land your home is on was given legal rights by a third party and you are "displaced", would you still feel the same?

This is a complicated issue with Israel and Palestine both being supported by terrorist.

The way I see the situation is simple. I do not have an answer.

[madmax]

Originally Posted by KWSeeks

It Is because most of the world beleives that it belongs to Isreal. I suggest you all research the establishment of the State of Isreal and the establishment of Palestine. Isreal occupied that land until they were exiled. In 1948 the UN recognized the legal State of Isreal and their right to the land. The State of Palestine is still not recognized by the UN. They are a sitting member only(observer only). You guys are typical. Instead of checking your facts you try to personally insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. I thought was in an intelligent discussion. Obvously I was mistaken. You guys can have this forum to yourselves. I am gone

You can't even spell "Isreal" (Israel) let alone understand it. The history of the region is much more complex than your simplification.
Plad handed your ass to you... now you are gonna take your ball and go home... fine. Sayonara.

[Stevomeo]

Originally Posted by KWSeeks

It Is because most of the world beleives that it belongs to Isreal. I suggest you all research the establishment of the State of Isreal and the establishment of Palestine. Isreal occupied that land until they were exiled. In 1948 the UN recognized the legal State of Isreal and their right to the land. The State of Palestine is still not recognized by the UN. They are a sitting member only(observer only). You guys are typical. Instead of checking your facts you try to personally insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. I thought was in an intelligent discussion. Obvously I was mistaken. You guys can have this forum to yourselves. I am gone

It's a tough crowd around here KW. Don't let the school yard bullies intimidate you..........some here just like to argue for the sake of argument and are intolerant of any thoughts that conflict with their opinions.