Sandy Hook Solution?

[pladecalvo]

...another one!!!! Never mind...just as long as you maintain your right to carry guns!

http://news.yahoo.com/man-fires-50-s...042034513.html

[DonH]

To those suggesting that if we could just eliminate guns this wouldnt happen......the internet is riddled with articles about people committing outrageous crimes with knives, explosives,gasoline. In fact the greatest number of children killed in a school in the U.S. were killed by a nutjob with access to dynamite, I believe some time in the 1920's. Let's eliminate the sale of so-called automatic weapons to minimize the large numbers of deaths, arm those in schools and other public places that wish to complete the safety and proficiency training, and recognize that whatever we do we cant shelter ourselves completely from the people that go off the deep end. If they want to kill they will succeed.

[DonH]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

So tell me (considering that so many people in the USA own guns) do you have no street crime there?? Are no homes ever broken into?? Are no shops ever robbed?? If you have crime if you have guns and crime if you don't, they you have nothing to loose by getting rid of the guns. You may get you house broken into but at least you don't lose your life. But are we are not talking about house robberies or general crime here, so your video is a 'strawman'. It is about people getting shot, children getting shot. Remove the gun and you remove the shooting...as we have proven. QED. If general crime goes up as a result of removing guns then that is a problem that politicians must deal with. You can use the argument that people will get robbed if there are no guns ...because people are getting robbed even when guns are allowed.

I can only reiterate what I have said throughout this thread. Europe does not have guns and Europe is not having it's children murdered in school by crazed gunmen. Protect your 'right to carry guns' at your own peril people.

We probably should eliminate knives and rope in Spain

http://buzzbee.********.com/hub/Rece...erers-in-Spain

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by DonH

To those suggesting that if we could just eliminate guns this wouldnt happen......

So why don't you be the first here to explain why Europe doesn't have the same problem with it's infants getting massacred at school as the USA has? Everyone seems to be avoiding this question. As far as I can see, it's either because ....

a) We are not as psychologically disturbed as Americans.
b) We are better educated.
c) We are more civilised
d) We care about our children more than Americans care about theirs.
e) We are not allowed to carry guns.

Personally, I'd go for (e)...how about you?

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by DonH

We probably should eliminate knives and rope in Spain

http://buzzbee.********.com/hub/Rece...erers-in-Spain

Link doesn't work. What's it about?

[DonH]

It's about several mass murders that have occurred in Spain, mostly with knives and by strangling

[DonH]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

So why don't you be the first here to explain why Europe doesn't have the same problem with it's infants getting massacred at school as the USA has? Everyone seems to be avoiding this question. As far as I can see, it's either because ....

a) We are not as psychologically disturbed as Americans.
b) We are better educated.
c) We are more civilised
d) We care about our children more than Americans care about theirs.
e) We are not allowed to carry guns.

Personally, I'd go for (e)...how about you?

Exactly where would the criminals go to turn in their guns?

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by DonH

It's about several mass murders that have occurred in Spain, mostly with knives and by strangling

What do you mean by "several"??? Two, three, four....anything approaching the numbers of people killed by guns in the USA. Your argument is flawed. Can the world do without rope....no. Can the world do without knives....no. Can the world do without the public owning guns.....most certainly it can. If you are going to enter the discussion, be realistic. You might as well argue that we should ban food because it makes people fat. It's a case of getting rid of something that serves no purpose...such as guns.

At the end of the day, you people are going to have to decide. Either you value the life of your citizens ....or you value your right to carry firearms more. You decide!

Originally Posted by DonH

Exactly where would the criminals go to turn in their guns?

The same place they went when gun ownership was prohibited in Europe. Again, you continue to make excuses.

You might have an argument if gun ownership stopped crime. You might have an argument if gun ownership prevented people from shooting someone, if it stopped houses being burgled etc....but it doesn't. Even though you are allowed to have firearms in your country, houses still get robbed, people still get killed, crime of all kinds still exists...so what the hell is the point of you having guns....what purpose do they serve? Your country has a similar argument for retaining the death penalty because it deters murder. WELL IT DOESN'T.

You guys just can't bear to give up that macho, cowboy image. OK...as you wish.... but you're going to have to live with the consequences. Don't cry about it the next time 20 five year old get mown down in their classroom.

...and you still haven't taken up the challenge by answering the question.....
WHY DON'T WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS IN EUROPE THAT YOU ENVISAGE GETTING IF FIREARMS ARE BANNED IN THE USA. WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES US DIFFERENT?

[Francoitalianarmy]

Plad ole' boy.... you are missing the point here... Speaking for myself and probably a few others, we will trade off the possibility of a few idiots using a tool (gun) wrongly as long as we have the right to carry firearms to defend ourselves and this country.

We were born of revolution here and we do not have the fear of the government locking us down politically, gassing us, making us fear retribution for merely speaking out against the government.

Europe is civilized enough, but in reality, it could crack down on it's citizens... could that happen here? Perhaps, but with a militia of nearly 5 million vets and other gun owners, that is the equalizer.

200 years ago, this country was oppressed.... we fought and broke that bind WITH GUNS... it is part of who we are and that will never change.

Where do you feel safer.... on a bus in NYC with the threat of a mad gunman or on a bus in Tel Aviv that can be bombed... Millions are killed world wide... the "means" makes no difference to lunatics

There is no answer as to why people do what they do...this isn't a platform about only guns, but other contributing factors as well: medication or lack there of, parenting responsibility and so forth... what would happen in these countries that are severely oppressed... where people have to put up with atrocities committed by their governments if gun ownership was not only legal, but a cherished and respected right? Would medevil stonings still occur?

The right and MEANS to defend yourself is precious here... 200 years ago isn't really that long ago. When the need to disarm this country becomes evident, it will happen... but not until that time.

BTW... I'm doing fine... been busy, but I lurk as much as possible. Hope your holiday is doing good! I'm trying to put a trip together to Sweden this spring... now I have to convince the God/gods to create more time in the day so I can make it happen!

[Francoitalianarmy]

You might have an argument if gun ownership stopped crime. You might have an argument if gun ownership prevented people from shooting someone, if it stopped houses being burgled etc....but it doesn't. Even though you are allowed to have firearms in your country, houses still get robbed, people still get killed, crime of all kinds still exists...so what the hell is the point of you having guns....what purpose do they serve? Your country has a similar argument for retaining the death penalty because it deters murder. WELL IT DOESN'T.

The jury is still out on the death penalty and murder... the numbers bear out a drop (some 18 per execution rate) in one study but it was also determined murder is a crime of passion, drugs or mentally ill and in most instances, they are not considering the consequences of their actions.

I do however feel it brings a sense of security when it comes to robbery... many robberies are thwarted because of dogs in the house or the fact the person could be armed. It is really common sense from the robber point of view that if you knew a man had a gun on him, would you attempt to rob him or choose the unarmed guy to rob?