The Einstein letter

[Wouldhe]

Originally Posted by Wallis

What's your point, Randy?

You have a definitive view of what life is supposed to be all about?

God or no god, this is the way it is. Taunting because of your miopic view of what God ought to be does not negate people's desires to believe in a God or even disprove the existence of such.

You clearly do not understand that this existence is built on the concept of death. To remain alive, organisms depend upon death other other organisms. Since death is not a part of God's afterlife plan (as defined by nearly every religion), to compare this existence of death with the ideal of existence is non-logical. Just laughable.

Several times in the Old Testament, the writers have God basically stating: "It's my ballgame. You don't like it? Tough."

Even in the New Testament, Jesus made it pretty clear: "There will always be . . . ." Nothing changes because one believes or doesn't believe in a God.

The fairy tales you bring up as "fact" is the global flood (which never happened), the Devil (or Satan or Lucifer or whatever else you want to call this non-entity), and angels. Good grief! Is this the limitation of your imagination?

Yet, you would not deny people enjoying Harry Potter, Bilbo Baggins and all the other characters of Middle Earth, or even various races fighting both with and against John Carter on Mars.

Not real, you would argue. Well, guess what? Most of the characters of the Old Testament were not real either nor the stories that involve them. Still, people want to believe in the real existence of one-eyed monsters and giants like Goliath. They aren't hurting anyone.

Why are you picking on them?
-------

Now, let's to what you DIDN'T say.

If this God does appear and starts doling out "good" things like you feel deserving to you and humanity, then you will start believing. Sorry. You cannot believe in something you can see, touch, hear, taste, and feel. These things you know.

And why would you worship this Almighty Santa Claus? Ahh. Our nature tends to bite the hand that feeds us, and we would either be turning our backs on this Cornucopia of Goodness or "sychophanting" (our lips permanently glued to IT's ass) in an eternal act of masturbating while ignoring everyone else around us.

You go girl!

[emilynghiem]

Originally Posted by randy1149

I have a few question for all you believers.

After the flood of 40 days and 40 nights who and how did all the dead rotting water logged bodies get buried or cleaned up? Why hasn't anybody found them?

If your god has all this power to create this entire universe why doesn't he just snap his fingers and eliminate the devil... Satan or Lucifer whatever his name is?

Where did the angles come from, where do they hang out when there's nothing to do?

Why does your god bring children into this world and then give them cancer?

Hi Randy:
1. The flood, the garden, and other events in the Bible represent stages of development of humanity and the world. We are still cleaning up some of these messes. The OT is generally a warning about the death, destruction and genocide caused by living by the letter of the law which gets corrupted by greed for power, which we still see today as antichrist. The NT is about living by the spirit of the laws, of truth, love of justice and charity for all humanity. So Restorative Justice in Christ Jesus breaks the cycle of retribution that has been killing humanity and causing endless suffering and war and poverty. Anything in the Bible can be interpreted in that context to show the process of humanity moving away from retributive justice and war (or endless hell or suffering on earth) toward restorative justice and peace (or eternal heaven, the Kingdom of God or paradise on earth).

2. The purpose of Satan is to help us make choices by "free will and reason" by comparing the difference in following selfish motives out of "fear" and competition in conflict with others, instead of living selflessly out of love of Truth and Equal Justice which God and Jesus represent. We learn by cause and effect, by consequences and experiences resulting from past actions or choices. So when we do things out of selfishness and division/fear, it has a negative result as opposed to when we do things out of love and concern for the greater good for society and humanity, where God's will represents the ultimate greatest good will for all people equally and is the supreme ideal of perfect love.

3. Angels and Demons are spiritual forces and influences of both selfless good and selfish harm; they help in the system of people learning the difference, so we can choose by free will and reason based on understanding this difference. When we forgive, we heal and we improve relations and are better able to fix problems in constructive ways, so this brings about good consequences. When we do not forgive, we attract negative emotions, people and events that keep us stuck in suffering, so this brings about bad consequences. In this way, God uses Satan and the Demons, Jesus and the Angels to guide humanity toward forgiving the past so we can prevent and correct ills in the future that are the consequence of past actions and unresolved conflicts repeating from the past.

4. This includes cancer and other diseases. Until we totally eradicate the unforgiveness and sickness that allows cancer to go untreated or uncured, or even sick criminals to run free to harm more victims, then these physical and social ills are symptoms that we have more corrections to make as a society. The reason the body gets sick is to indicate there is some imbalance or cause of the sickness that is preventing natural health and healing as our minds and bodies are designed. Likewise the point of the suffering and sickness in society is to show the consequence of root causes that have not been identified or corrected yet so we can work on that. Not all injustices, death or disease can be fully prevented; but most ills do have a cause and cure that can be diagnosed. Humans are given free will, reason and conscience to figure out which can and cannot be resolved, so that we can focus on improving what can be helped.

[Cusco]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-...3-million-bid/

In a March 24, 1954 letter, he is quoted as writing, "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration
for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by emilynghiem

Hi Randy:
1. The flood, the garden, and other events in the Bible represent stages of development of humanity and the world. We are still cleaning up some of these messes. The OT is generally a warning about the death, destruction and genocide caused by living by the letter of the law which gets corrupted by greed for power, which we still see today as antichrist. The NT is about living by the spirit of the laws, of truth, love of justice and charity for all humanity. So Restorative Justice in Christ Jesus breaks the cycle of retribution that has been killing humanity and causing endless suffering and war and poverty. Anything in the Bible can be interpreted in that context to show the process of humanity moving away from retributive justice and war (or endless hell or suffering on earth) toward restorative justice and peace (or eternal heaven, the Kingdom of God or paradise on earth).

2. The purpose of Satan is to help us make choices by "free will and reason" by comparing the difference in following selfish motives out of "fear" and competition in conflict with others, instead of living selflessly out of love of Truth and Equal Justice which God and Jesus represent. We learn by cause and effect, by consequences and experiences resulting from past actions or choices. So when we do things out of selfishness and division/fear, it has a negative result as opposed to when we do things out of love and concern for the greater good for society and humanity, where God's will represents the ultimate greatest good will for all people equally and is the supreme ideal of perfect love.

3. Angels and Demons are spiritual forces and influences of both selfless good and selfish harm; they help in the system of people learning the difference, so we can choose by free will and reason based on understanding this difference. When we forgive, we heal and we improve relations and are better able to fix problems in constructive ways, so this brings about good consequences. When we do not forgive, we attract negative emotions, people and events that keep us stuck in suffering, so this brings about bad consequences. In this way, God uses Satan and the Demons, Jesus and the Angels to guide humanity toward forgiving the past so we can prevent and correct ills in the future that are the consequence of past actions and unresolved conflicts repeating from the past.

4. This includes cancer and other diseases. Until we totally eradicate the unforgiveness and sickness that allows cancer to go untreated or uncured, or even sick criminals to run free to harm more victims, then these physical and social ills are symptoms that we have more corrections to make as a society. The reason the body gets sick is to indicate there is some imbalance or cause of the sickness that is preventing natural health and healing as our minds and bodies are designed. Likewise the point of the suffering and sickness in society is to show the consequence of root causes that have not been identified or corrected yet so we can work on that. Not all injustices, death or disease can be fully prevented; but most ills do have a cause and cure that can be diagnosed. Humans are given free will, reason and conscience to figure out which can and cannot be resolved, so that we can focus on improving what can be helped.

No matter how many times I read this sort of tripe folks, I can't help laughing at the fact that in 2012, there are still people around who believe in such nonsense - but then I realise that such people are allowed to vote....and I stop laughing.

[Wouldhe]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

No matter how many times I read this sort of tripe folks, I can't help laughing at the fact that in 2012, there are still people around who believe in such nonsense - but then I realise that such people are allowed to vote....and I stop laughing.

What's even more puzzling is that there are very highly educated people in the scientific fields that believe all the nonsense.

[randy1149]

After reading all the replies to my thread I find a lot of metaphoric responses that make no sense. It makes no difference to me whatever the reason YOU believe in god. Yes I know very well the myth of god is built on the concept of death. Woouldhe YOU clearly don't understand death is the end of the road.

Nobody has given logical answers to my questions because there is NO logical answers. Of course I know Satan does not exist and "he" just invented to put fear in people. And I get a hint the bible is should not be taken literally and should not be take such. Well that's my point exactly... it's a book of folklore BS.

Nobody can explain Noah's Ark, the creation of Satan, Angles and cancer to children because there is no answer. The problem here is when you bring god into any argument... there is no argument. A typical example is how did we get here? Science, evolution, anthropology all get thrown away and are irrelevant when we accept god created us. So most of the replies here infer in one way or another... it's all gods will.

Religion is still the root of the worst evil.

[Wallis]

Well, Emily sure went deep into inner space. Hope she doesn't lose her way.

Religion is NOT the root of the worst evil. Mankind is. First, one must define "evil." In a different thread, Emily went so far as to claim the genocide of certain peoples was not "evil" for it was a "spiritual" cleansing of some sort.

And when Obama finally sets up lilquidation centers for people over the age of--say--50 to save on spending social security money and starts to eliminate useless eaters from society, that won't be "evil" either. For the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the one. And Obama is Legion and Many.

Mankind has used religious concepts as well as science concepts to continually enslave itself. There is no need for a mythical hell; we humans enjoy making even the best of life a living hell that gets worse with each passing milestone.

What most religious people dismiss--perhaps were not introduced or taught--is found in Ecclesiastes. [You can gloss over the following; some of it is very interesting, however.]

Basically, what does God expect?

Answer: nothing.

What does mankind expect, especially of God?

Answer: everything.

What is the meaning of life?

Answer: There is no meaning of life. It just is and isn't.

One note on the following: while the Hebrew word hebel is translated as vanity, it can also mean vapor or breath. In essence, it is something acknowledged as having substance when in reality is does not.

All Is Vanity
1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

2 Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher,
vanity of vanities! All is vanity.
3 What does man gain by all the toil
at which he toils under the sun?
4 A generation goes, and a generation comes,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises, and the sun goes down,
and hastens to the place where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and goes around to the north;
around and around goes the wind,
and on its circuits the wind returns.
7 All streams run to the sea,
but the sea is not full;
to the place where the streams flow,
there they flow again.
8 All things are full of weariness;
a man cannot utter it;
the eye is not satisfied with seeing,
nor the ear filled with hearing.
9 What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done,
and there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there a thing of which it is said,
“See, this is new”?
It has been already
in the ages before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things,
nor will there be any remembrance
of later things yet to be
among those who come after.

[Note: the circle of life without end and therefore without purpose]

The Vanity of Wisdom
12 I the Preacher have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. 14 I have seen everything that is done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind.

15 What is crooked cannot be made straight,
and what is lacking cannot be counted.

16 I said in my heart, “I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.” 17 And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

18 For in much wisdom is much vexation,
and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

The Vanity of Self-Indulgence
2 I said in my heart, “Come now, I will test you with pleasure; enjoy yourself.” But behold, this also was vanity. 2 I said of laughter, “It is mad,” and of pleasure, “What use is it?” 3 I searched with my heart how to cheer my body with wine—my heart still guiding me with wisdom—and how to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was good for the children of man to do under heaven during the few days of their life. 4 I made great works. I built houses and planted vineyards for myself. 5 I made myself gardens and parks, and planted in them all kinds of fruit trees. 6 I made myself pools from which to water the forest of growing trees. 7 I bought male and female slaves, and had slaves who were born in my house. I had also great possessions of herds and flocks, more than any who had been before me in Jerusalem. 8 I also gathered for myself silver and gold and the treasure of kings and provinces. I got singers, both men and women, and many concubines, the delight of the sons of man.

9 So I became great and surpassed all who were before me in Jerusalem. Also my wisdom remained with me. 10 And whatever my eyes desired I did not keep from them. I kept my heart from no pleasure, for my heart found pleasure in all my toil, and this was my reward for all my toil. 11 Then I considered all that my hands had done and the toil I had expended in doing it, and behold, all was vanity and a striving after wind, and there was nothing to be gained under the sun.

[There is a great disappointment in my own heart. I have come to a point where I believe I have a pretty good construction of the world, human society, and my place in the world and that society. I have come to believe that I have succeeded in being enlightened spiritually and mentally. All to disappear upon my imminent death. AND THEN TO HAVE TO START OVER IN THE NEXT REINCARNATION!]

The Vanity of Living Wisely
12 So I turned to consider wisdom and madness and folly. For what can the man do who comes after the king? Only what has already been done. 13 Then I saw that there is more gain in wisdom than in folly, as there is more gain in light than in darkness. 14 The wise person has his eyes in his head, but the fool walks in darkness. And yet I perceived that the same event happens to all of them. 15 Then I said in my heart, “What happens to the fool will happen to me also. Why then have I been so very wise?” And I said in my heart that this also is vanity. 16 For of the wise as of the fool there is no enduring remembrance, seeing that in the days to come all will have been long forgotten. How the wise dies just like the fool! 17 So I hated life, because what is done under the sun was grievous to me, for all is vanity and a striving after wind.

[What is wisdom, other than the realization that chasing after it was a waste of time, equal to folly.]

The Vanity of Toil
18 I hated all my toil in which I toil under the sun, seeing that I must leave it to the man who will come after me, 19 and who knows whether he will be wise or a fool? Yet he will be master of all for which I toiled and used my wisdom under the sun. This also is vanity. 20 So I turned about and gave my heart up to despair over all the toil of my labors under the sun, 21 because sometimes a person who has toiled with wisdom and knowledge and skill must leave everything to be enjoyed by someone who did not toil for it. This also is vanity and a great evil. 22 What has a man from all the toil and striving of heart with which he toils beneath the sun? 23 For all his days are full of sorrow, and his work is a vexation. Even in the night his heart does not rest. This also is vanity.

[You know, you work like a dog for twenty to thirty years. The elusive utopia is retirement. But when you get there, there is no joy. People don't really give a damn at anything you have done. You only get respect when you're dead. And then after you put your heart and soul into something that mattered most, other people are going to come along and rip it apart or tear it down anyway.]

24 There is nothing better for a person than that he should eat and drink and find enjoyment in his toil. This also, I saw, is from the hand of God, 25 for apart from him who can eat or who can have enjoyment? 26 For to the one who pleases him God has given wisdom and knowledge and joy, but to the sinner he has given the business of gathering and collecting, only to give to one who pleases God. This also is vanity and a striving after wind.

[I like the equating of "ignorance is bliss" with this passage. Better to question nothing and believe in mythology. Then one can eat, drink, piss, fuck, and sleep in a lifetime of joy. And not really giving a damn as to what will happen tomorrow. If everyone followed this line of reasoning, we might have a chance to grow back body hair and join our chimpanzee brothers in a much simpler life. We'd be happy, and so would God.]

A Time for Everything
3 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:

2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

The God-Given Task
9 What gain has the worker from his toil? 10 I have seen the business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end. 12 I perceived that there is nothing better for them than to be joyful and to do good as long as they live; 13 also that everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure in all his toil—this is God's gift to man.

[It goes hand in hand with the God character in the short story of Job, whereas this God fellow asks the rhetorical question to Job: "Where were you, asshole, when I built the foundations of the world?" In short, quit complaining, be thankful for your miserable but short life, and find pleasure somewhere in it. 'Cause it's My ballgame, My rules, and that's just the way it is. (Somewhere a jail cell door slams shut.)]


14 I perceived that whatever God does endures forever; nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. God has done it, so that people fear before him. 15 That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been; and God seeks what has been driven away.

[This is like: Ooooooh! God know what you have been doing, so you better watch out. 'Cause He's making a list and checking it twice. The gates of hell are coming . . . . to town!]

From Dust to Dust
16 Moreover, I saw under the sun that in the place of justice, even there was wickedness, and in the place of righteousness, even there was wickedness. 17 I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for there is a time for every matter and for every work. 18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. 19 For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth? 22 So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should rejoice in his work, for that is his lot. Who can bring him to see what will be after him?

[This goes hand-in-hand with the ancient Judaic concept that death was permament. A soul is simply remembered by God. There was no after-life. No Sheol or Hell. We are simply here today, gone tomorrow.]

Evil Under the Sun
4 Again I saw all the oppressions that are done under the sun. And behold, the tears of the oppressed, and they had no one to comfort them! On the side of their oppressors there was power, and there was no one to comfort them. 2 And I thought the dead who are already dead more fortunate than the living who are still alive. 3 But better than both is he who has not yet been and has not seen the evil deeds that are done under the sun.

[Again, reminiscent of Job's final lament that got him off the hook. When Job cursed his own birth, that is when the God-Judge finally stopped Satan-District Attorney's persecution. What a truism these three passages hold: this "death" between "life" is a bitter pill to swallow much less endure.]

4 Then I saw that all toil and all skill in work come from a man's envy of his neighbor. This also is vanity[o] and a striving after wind.

5 The fool folds his hands and eats his own flesh.

6 Better is a handful of quietness than two hands full of toil and a striving after wind.

7 Again, I saw vanity under the sun: 8 one person who has no other, either son or brother, yet there is no end to all his toil, and his eyes are never satisfied with riches, so that he never asks, “For whom am I toiling and depriving myself of pleasure?” This also is vanity and an unhappy business.

9 Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their toil. 10 For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up! 11 Again, if two lie together, they keep warm, but how can one keep warm alone? 12 And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

13 Better was a poor and wise youth than an old and foolish king who no longer knew how to take advice. 14 For he went from prison to the throne, though in his own kingdom he had been born poor. 15 I saw all the living who move about under the sun, along with that youth who was to stand in the king's place. 16 There was no end of all the people, all of whom he led. Yet those who come later will not rejoice in him. Surely this also is vanity and a striving after wind.

Fear God
5 Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. To draw near to listen is better than to offer the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they are doing evil. 2 Be not rash with your mouth, nor let your heart be hasty to utter a word before God, for God is in heaven and you are on earth. Therefore let your words be few. 3 For a dream comes with much business, and a fool's voice with many words.

[Reminds me of Twain's comment: "Better to be thought a fool than open mouth to remove all doubt."]

4 When you vow a vow to God, do not delay paying it, for he has no pleasure in fools. Pay what you vow. 5 It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay. 6 Let not your mouth lead you into sin, and do not say before the messenger that it was a mistake. Why should God be angry at your voice and destroy the work of your hands? 7 For when dreams increase and words grow many, there is vanity; but God is the one you must fear.

The Vanity of Wealth and Honor
8 If you see in a province the oppression of the poor and the violation of justice and righteousness, do not be amazed at the matter, for the high official is watched by a higher, and there are yet higher ones over them. 9 But this is gain for a land in every way: a king committed to cultivated fields.

10 He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity. 11 When goods increase, they increase who eat them, and what advantage has their owner but to see them with his eyes? 12 Sweet is the sleep of a laborer, whether he eats little or much, but the full stomach of the rich will not let him sleep.

13 There is a grievous evil that I have seen under the sun: riches were kept by their owner to his hurt, 14 and those riches were lost in a bad venture. And he is father of a son, but he has nothing in his hand. 15 As he came from his mother's womb he shall go again, naked as he came, and shall take nothing for his toil that he may carry away in his hand. 16 This also is a grievous evil: just as he came, so shall he go, and what gain is there to him who toils for the wind? 17 Moreover, all his days he eats in darkness in much vexation and sickness and anger.

18 Behold, what I have seen to be good and fitting is to eat and drink and find enjoyment in all the toil with which one toils under the sun the few days of his life that God has given him, for this is his lot. 19 Everyone also to whom God has given wealth and possessions and power to enjoy them, and to accept his lot and rejoice in his toil—this is the gift of God. 20 For he will not much remember the days of his life because God keeps him occupied with joy in his heart.

6 There is an evil that I have seen under the sun, and it lies heavy on mankind: 2 a man to whom God gives wealth, possessions, and honor, so that he lacks nothing of all that he desires, yet God does not give him power to enjoy them, but a stranger enjoys them. This is vanity; it is a grievous evil. 3 If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but his soul is not satisfied with life's good things, and he also has no burial, I say that a stillborn child is better off than he. 4 For it comes in vanity and goes in darkness, and in darkness its name is covered. 5 Moreover, it has not seen the sun or known anything, yet it finds rest rather than he. 6 Even though he should live a thousand years twice over, yet enjoy no good—do not all go to the one place?

7 All the toil of man is for his mouth, yet his appetite is not satisfied. 8 For what advantage has the wise man over the fool? And what does the poor man have who knows how to conduct himself before the living? 9 Better is the sight of the eyes than the wandering of the appetite: this also is vanity and a striving after wind.

[Kind of needs defining who is the wise guy and who is the fool. Perhaps both are both wise and both fools, and yet, it don't matter because it is all worthless vanity.]

10 Whatever has come to be has already been named, and it is known what man is, and that he is not able to dispute with one stronger than he. 11 The more words, the more vanity, and what is the advantage to man? 12 For who knows what is good for man while he lives the few days of his vain life, which he passes like a shadow? For who can tell man what will be after him under the sun?

The Contrast of Wisdom and Folly
7 A good name is better than precious ointment,
and the day of death than the day of birth.
2 It is better to go to the house of mourning
than to go to the house of feasting,
for this is the end of all mankind,
and the living will lay it to heart.
3 Sorrow is better than laughter,
for by sadness of face the heart is made glad.
4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning,
but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.
5 It is better for a man to hear the rebuke of the wise
than to hear the song of fools.
6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot,
so is the laughter of the fools;
this also is vanity.
7 Surely oppression drives the wise into madness,
and a bribe corrupts the heart.
8 Better is the end of a thing than its beginning,
and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.
9 Be not quick in your spirit to become angry,
for anger lodges in the heart of fools.
10 Say not, “Why were the former days better than these?”
For it is not from wisdom that you ask this.
11 Wisdom is good with an inheritance,
an advantage to those who see the sun.
12 For the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money,
and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it.
13 Consider the work of God:
who can make straight what he has made crooked?

[I like the idea of "it is supposed to happen" coupled with "there's a sucker born every minute." You can't do much about either except to watch and enjoy. At least the entertainment is free.]

14 In the day of prosperity be joyful, and in the day of adversity consider: God has made the one as well as the other, so that man may not find out anything that will be after him.

15 In my vain life I have seen everything. There is a righteous man who perishes in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man who prolongs his life in his evildoing. 16 Be not overly righteous, and do not make yourself too wise. Why should you destroy yourself? 17 Be not overly wicked, neither be a fool. Why should you die before your time? 18 It is good that you should take hold of this, and from that withhold not your hand, for the one who fears God shall come out from both of them.

[Goes back to a question I have been asking: "If there is a boat bound for heaven and only one seat left, would you give up that seat to someone else?" There is no real "right" answer. But it is a personal answer that should matter.]

19 Wisdom gives strength to the wise man more than ten rulers who are in a city.

20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

21 Do not take to heart all the things that people say, lest you hear your servant cursing you. 22 Your heart knows that many times you yourself have cursed others.

23 All this I have tested by wisdom. I said, “I will be wise,” but it was far from me. 24 That which has been is far off, and deep, very deep; who can find it out?

25 I turned my heart to know and to search out and to seek wisdom and the scheme of things, and to know the wickedness of folly and the foolishness that is madness. 26 And I find something more bitter than death: the woman whose heart is snares and nets, and whose hands are fetters. He who pleases God escapes her, but the sinner is taken by her. 27 Behold, this is what I found, says the Preacher, while adding one thing to another to find the scheme of things— 28 which my soul has sought repeatedly, but I have not found. One man among a thousand I found, but a woman among all these I have not found. 29 See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.

[Funny that Solomon requested the gift of wisdom and then moved on to do the stupidest things during his reign. I suppose that when a person has found "wisdom," in reality he ends up being the biggest fool of all.]

Keep the King's Command
8 Who is like the wise?
And who knows the interpretation of a thing?
A man's wisdom makes his face shine,
and the hardness of his face is changed.

2 I say: Keep the king's command, because of God's oath to him. 3 Be not hasty to go from his presence. Do not take your stand in an evil cause, for he does whatever he pleases. 4 For the word of the king is supreme, and who may say to him, “What are you doing?” 5 Whoever keeps a command will know no evil thing, and the wise heart will know the proper time and the just way. 6 For there is a time and a way for everything, although man's trouble lies heavy on him. 7 For he does not know what is to be, for who can tell him how it will be? 8 No man has power to retain the spirit, or power over the day of death. There is no discharge from war, nor will wickedness deliver those who are given to it. 9 All this I observed while applying my heart to all that is done under the sun, when man had power over man to his hurt.

[Ouch! Does this mean that if we follow every evil command issued by Obama we are doing the right thing? Nope. Can't do that. "I'll do anything, but I won't do that!"]

Those Who Fear God Will Do Well
10 Then I saw the wicked buried. They used to go in and out of the holy place and were praised in the city where they had done such things. This also is vanity. 11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil. 12
Though a sinner does evil a hundred times and prolongs his life, yet I know that it will be well with those who fear God, because they fear before him. 13 But it will not be well with the wicked, neither will he prolong his days like a shadow, because he does not fear before God.

[Kind of depends on who is defining "God's ways."]

Man Cannot Know God's Ways
14 There is a vanity that takes place on earth, that there are righteous people to whom it happens according to the deeds of the wicked, and there are wicked people to whom it happens according to the deeds of the righteous. I said that this also is vanity. 15 And I commend joy, for man has nothing better under the sun but to eat and drink and be joyful, for this will go with him in his toil through the days of his life that God has given him under the sun.

[This is kind of obvious because men can't comprehend even their own "ways."]

16 When I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done on earth, how neither day nor night do one's eyes see sleep, 17 then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know, he cannot find it out.

Death Comes to All
9 But all this I laid to heart, examining it all, how the righteous and the wise and their deeds are in the hand of God. Whether it is love or hate, man does not know; both are before him. 2 It is the same for all, since the same event happens to the righteous and the wicked, to the good and the evil, to the clean and the unclean, to him who sacrifices and him who does not sacrifice. As the good one is, so is the sinner, and he who swears is as he who shuns an oath. 3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead. 4 But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.

Enjoy Life with the One You Love
7 Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.

8 Let your garments be always white. Let not oil be lacking on your head.

9 Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vain life that he has given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.

Wisdom Better than Folly
11 Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all. 12 For man does not know his time. Like fish that are taken in an evil net, and like birds that are caught in a snare, so the children of man are snared at an evil time, when it suddenly falls upon them.

13 I have also seen this example of wisdom under the sun, and it seemed great to me. 14 There was a little city with few men in it, and a great king came against it and besieged it, building great siegeworks against it. 15 But there was found in it a poor, wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city. Yet no one remembered that poor man. 16 But I say that wisdom is better than might, though the poor man's wisdom is despised and his words are not heard.

17 The words of the wise heard in quiet are better than the shouting of a ruler among fools. 18 Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but one sinner destroys much good.

[Question everything; believe nothing.]

10 Dead flies make the perfumer's ointment give off a stench;
so a little folly outweighs wisdom and honor.
2 A wise man's heart inclines him to the right,
but a fool's heart to the left.
3 Even when the fool walks on the road, he lacks sense,
and he says to everyone that he is a fool.
4 If the anger of the ruler rises against you, do not leave your place,
for calmness will lay great offenses to rest.

5 There is an evil that I have seen under the sun, as it were an error proceeding from the ruler: 6 folly is set in many high places, and the rich sit in a low place. 7 I have seen slaves on horses, and princes walking on the ground like slaves.

8 He who digs a pit will fall into it,
and a serpent will bite him who breaks through a wall.
9 He who quarries stones is hurt by them,
and he who splits logs is endangered by them.
10 If the iron is blunt, and one does not sharpen the edge,
he must use more strength,
but wisdom helps one to succeed.
11 If the serpent bites before it is charmed,
there is no advantage to the charmer.

12 The words of a wise man's mouth win him favor,
but the lips of a fool consume him.
13 The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness,
and the end of his talk is evil madness.
14 A fool multiplies words,
though no man knows what is to be,
and who can tell him what will be after him?
15 The toil of a fool wearies him,
for he does not know the way to the city.

16 Woe to you, O land, when your king is a child,
and your princes feast in the morning!
17 Happy are you, O land, when your king is the son of the nobility,
and your princes feast at the proper time,
for strength, and not for drunkenness!
18 Through sloth the roof sinks in,
and through indolence the house leaks.
19 Bread is made for laughter,
and wine gladdens life,
and money answers everything.
20 Even in your thoughts, do not curse the king,
nor in your bedroom curse the rich,
for a bird of the air will carry your voice,
or some winged creature tell the matter.

[Bye-bye, American pie.]

Cast Your Bread upon the Waters
11 Cast your bread upon the waters,
for you will find it after many days.
2 Give a portion to seven, or even to eight,
for you know not what disaster may happen on earth.
3 If the clouds are full of rain,
they empty themselves on the earth,
and if a tree falls to the south or to the north,
in the place where the tree falls, there it will lie.
4 He who observes the wind will not sow,
and he who regards the clouds will not reap.

5 As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones in the womb[ar] of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.

6 In the morning sow your seed, and at evening withhold not your hand, for you do not know which will prosper, this or that, or whether both alike will be good.

7 Light is sweet, and it is pleasant for the eyes to see the sun.

8 So if a person lives many years, let him rejoice in them all; but let him remember that the days of darkness will be many. All that comes is vanity.

9 Rejoice, O young man, in your youth, and let your heart cheer you in the days of your youth. Walk in the ways of your heart and the sight of your eyes. But know that for all these things God will bring you into judgment.

10 Remove vexation from your heart, and put away pain[at] from your body, for youth and the dawn of life are vanity.

Remember Your Creator in Your Youth
12 Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near of which you will say, “I have no pleasure in them”; 2 before the sun and the light and the moon and the stars are darkened and the clouds return after the rain, 3 in the day when the keepers of the house tremble, and the strong men are bent, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those who look through the windows are dimmed, 4 and the doors on the street are shut—when the sound of the grinding is low, and one rises up at the sound of a bird, and all the daughters of song are brought low— 5 they are afraid also of what is high, and terrors are in the way; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags itself along and desire fails, because man is going to his eternal home, and the mourners go about the streets— 6 before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is shattered at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern, 7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. 8 Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher; all is vanity.

[I guess I am now in the latter days--the winter--of my life. My youth--whenever I wasn't under the harsh thumbs of my parents--was great. At least I got to see the power and might of a wonderful nation called The United States. Now, even as my eyes dim, I see the "vanity" of our forefathers turning to dust before my very eyes. The hopes and dreams turned churlish and into a living nightmare.]

Fear God and Keep His Commandments
9 Besides being wise, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge, weighing and studying and arranging many proverbs with great care. 10 The Preacher sought to find words of delight, and uprightly he wrote words of truth.

11 The words of the wise are like goads, and like nails firmly fixed are the collected sayings; they are given by one Shepherd. 12 My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.

[Unfortunately, these last few lines, speak in opposition to the rest of Ecclesiastes, whereby the realization is made that if we just live life to the fullest, quite striving (the Buddhist proverb whereby all pain originates from our desires) against the flow of life, and learn to be happy. Instead, the author (or redactor who decided to add a few more lines) picks up this hope that God will blast all the bad guys into nothingness, reassert justice (which is determinate only by those who define what justice is in the first place), and exalt the ones He loves. Which doesn't make any sense, because everything is going to go back to what it was before: nothing.]

[nathan1162]

Originally Posted by prague202020

Actually, Einstein went to great lengths to clarify his views on God. He was personally religious and believed in a divine creator, only he found the Bible to be a primitive book and it's God to be a primitive caricature. He said for example:

“In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views.” †

It would seem then, at first glance, that Einstein was probably of a religious disposition. This view is supported by the following often repeated Einstein quotes:

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” †

“Before God we are all equally wise – and equally foolish.“ †

“I, in any case, am convinced [God] does not play dice.” †

“The Lord God is subtle, but malicious he is not.” †

“I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts. The rest are details.” †

Great quotes thanks. Einstein represents knowledge seeking faith.

[nathan1162]

Originally Posted by randy1149

After reading all the replies to my thread I find a lot of metaphoric responses that make no sense. It makes no difference to me whatever the reason YOU believe in god. Yes I know very well the myth of god is built on the concept of death. Woouldhe YOU clearly don't understand death is the end of the road.

Nobody has given logical answers to my questions because there is NO logical answers. Of course I know Satan does not exist and "he" just invented to put fear in people. And I get a hint the bible is should not be taken literally and should not be take such. Well that's my point exactly... it's a book of folklore BS.

Nobody can explain Noah's Ark, the creation of Satan, Angles and cancer to children because there is no answer. The problem here is when you bring god into any argument... there is no argument. A typical example is how did we get here? Science, evolution, anthropology all get thrown away and are irrelevant when we accept god created us. So most of the replies here infer in one way or another... it's all gods will.

Religion is still the root of the worst evil.

Noah's Ark Metaphorical Enigma

“A metaphorical enigma animates the salvation of mankind with great detail to sidetrack the conclusions of an audience to become timeless until the meaning is relevant for revelation.”
- Ophiuchus; E Pluribus Unum

A two by two cataclysmic apocalypse that illustrates a new beginning for mankind. We must build a financial ark to navigate through the tsunami wave of entitled "Baby Boomers" that intend to collect from a bankrupt ponzi scheme. http://LegacyWillandTrust.com

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by prague202020

Actually, Einstein went to great lengths to clarify his views on God. He was personally religious and believed in a divine creator, ....

Not quite!

On 22 March 1954 Einstein received a letter from Joseph Dispentiere, an Italian immigrant who had worked as an experimental machinist in New Jersey. Dispentiere had declared himself an atheist and was disappointed by a news report which had cast Einstein as conventionally religious. Einstein replied on 24 March 1954:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

In a letter to Beatrice Frohlich, 17 December 1952 Einstein stated,
"The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naïve."