Angel of light

[Wouldhe]

Originally Posted by theophilus

What is there to discuss? All anyone has said in response to this thread is that they disagree with me but no one has actually shown any proof that what I said was wrong.

There's nothing said that proves you right.

[Wouldhe]

Originally Posted by theophilus

Second Corinthians 11:14 says,

Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

When he does this he tricks people into doing evil by convincing them that what they are doing is good. One area where this tactic has been successful is the change he has brought about in our society’s attitude toward homosexual behavior.

According to the Bible God established marriage as a union between a man and a woman and limited sexual activity to marriage.

And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Genesis 2:22-24 ESV

In Matthew 19:3-5 Jesus quoted this passage in answering a question about marriage.

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?”

He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?”

He taught that marriage is to be a permanent union and that it is to be between a man and a woman.

In 1 Corinthians 6:15,16 Paul quoted the statement from Genesis in a different context.

Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.”

A comparison of what Jesus and Paul said shows that God equates sex and marriage and any kind of sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin.

God has provided a way that we can be forgiven for out sins by faith in Jesus Christ. According to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 homosexual activity can be forgiven in the same way as any other sin.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

But before anyone can be forgiven for his sins he must acknowledge that what he is doing is a sin and needs to be forgiven.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people today who try to convince everyone that there is nothing wrong with homosexual practice. They even want the government to endorse it by permitting two people of the same sex to legally marry. No doubt they are sincerely trying to help homosexuals but in fact they are the worst enemies the homosexuals have. What they are doing can be compared to a doctor telling a patient he is healthy when in fact he has a fatal illness which could be cured if he received the proper treatment. The real source of this attitude is Satan. He wants to keep people away from God and he does this by planting false ideas in peoples’ minds.

The Bible commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves, and this applies even when that neighbor is a homosexual. It is morally wrong to discriminate against someone because of his sexual orientation. But when the government passes laws prohibiting such discrimination or permitting same sex marriage this encourages homosexuals to think there is nothing wrong with what they are doing and can keep them from repenting and being forgiven. Such laws might make things easier for them in this life, but Jesus said it doesn’t profit a person to gain the world and lose his soul.

The way to really show love for homosexuals is to tell them what the Bible teaches on this subject and to warn them about the consequences of disobeying God. If they have already violated God’s commands we need to show them how they can be forgiven if they will turn from their sin and put their faith in Jesus. Those who do this will be accused of being homophobic and hating homosexuals, but in fact we are the best friends that homosexuals have.

It is important to keep in mind the difference between homosexual orientation and homosexual practice. A person can’t help it if he finds himself sexually attracted to people of the same sex but he can and must choose whether or not to act on this attraction. He is in the same situation as a heterosexual who finds himself attracted to someone to whom he isn’t married. Homosexual activity is a sin; homosexual orientation is a temptation which must be resisted.

There are two groups of people who are hurt if the difference between orientation and practice isn’t made clear.

The first group is those people who have homosexual desires but have refused to act on them because they know it would be wrong to do so. When they hear someone use the Bible to condemn homosexuality they may conclude that they are already guilty just because they have been tempted. For some this could lead them to give up resisting their desires and to yield to the temptation. It could also keep others from admitting their problem to people who could help them with it.

The second group is those homosexuals who have repented of their sin and trusted in Christ for salvation. They are likely to think that when they are saved their homosexual desires will be removed just as the guilt for their sin has been removed. When they find that this isn’t the case they could reach the conclusion that they aren’t really saved or that the gospel message is false. This problem could have been avoided if they had been taught the difference between orientation and practice and had been warned that after salvation God would help them resist temptation, not remove the temptation.

An excellent source of information about this subject is Wesley Hill’s book Washed and Waiting. Hill is a Christian who believes the Bible’s teaching about homosexual behavior but who also finds himself sexually attracted to other men. His book describes how he decided to live in obedience to God’s will regardless of how much it was contrary to his desires.

Here is a site that will help you better understand the Bible's teaching about homosexuality.

http://truefreedomtrust.co.uk/

True freedom Trust (TfT) is a confidential Christian support and teaching ministry for men and women who accept the Bible's prohibition of same-sex practice and yet are aware of same-sex attractions, or have other sexual and relational issues. We also offer support to families, friends and church leaders of those who face these issues in their lives. Click on About us to find out more about TfT and click Contact TfT to get in touch.
If you'd like to get a taste of our teaching, you may like to listen to this talk, given by our Director, Jonathan Berry.

The only thing that can come out of trash like this is hate, discontent and discrimination. The attitude that because you follow the bible and the bible is right it is okay for you to hate and have the feeling that you are better. How pitiful. Keep reading your fairy tales and keep the hate up!

[Sapphire]

Originally Posted by theophilus

What is there to discuss? All anyone has said in response to this thread is that they disagree with me but no one has actually shown any proof that what I said was wrong.

You'll continue to get a bunch of nonsense from them.

Keep posting the truth for all the visitors that come to this forum, seeking the truth. Don't allow them to stop you.

[OneArm]

Originally Posted by Sapphire

You'll continue to get a bunch of nonsense from them.

Keep posting the truth for all the visitors that come to this forum, seeking the truth. Don't allow them to stop you.

You are right, he should continue to post his thoughts. But, he should not go around saying that his thoughts are the truth. If he does, he needs to have evidence that backs it up.

Up until now, no one posting their thoughts that a one true god exist, has posted any evidence to back it up. Not even you.

To make sure we are all on the same Page here, the bible is in question as to just how accurate is really is. This means using the bible as your only source of evidence, works against you. The bible isn't evidence of god. Find real evidence, then we can have a true conversation.

[Sapphire]

Originally Posted by OneArm

You are right, he should continue to post his thoughts. But, he should not go around saying that his thoughts are the truth. If he does, he needs to have evidence that backs it up.

What evidence do you have to back up your beliefs?

List your proof.

And while you at it. show me PROOF of your belief that God did not create the earth, the universe, all creation.

[OneArm]

I'll answer you with my thought process:

Bad things happen, so if there is a god, it either can't stop bad things from happening, doesn't want to, or it doesn't exist.

So, lets look at that statement:

if god can't stop bad things from happening, then it must not be all powerfull. If it's not all powerfull, then it couldn't possibly have created the universe and all things in it. That's something I don't want to worship.

If it can stop bad things, but chooses not to, then god must be evil. Why would I want to belive in an all powerfull evil intenty. That would make life, not worth living.

So, seeing as the first two options fall short, I'm left with doesn't exist and I'm ok with that.



Or, I could say, the bible has too many inconsistencies and falsehoods to actually be the word of god. If god couldn't even get this book right, why believe it did anything. Noah's Ark is too small to fit all those animals on it. And what about the animals from other continents? The time it would have taken them to swim to Noah, they could have just swam till the flood was over. Which means, all animals could have done that. Don't get me started on the fish. And where did all that the water come from, where did it go. Science has proven that the water cycle tells us, rain water comes from evaporating water off the ground. So in order to rain as much water as it did, the earth would have had to be "flooded" to begin with. What did they all eat. I guessing there wasn't a few extra chickens sm***led on board for the meat eaters. If Noah and his family are the only humans left alive, why is my last name different from yours?

See, those are just a few questions the bible brings up, and that's just one of the many screwed up stories. So to believe in any of it, doesn't make much sense.

[Sapphire]

Originally Posted by OneArm

if god can't stop bad things from happening, then it must not be all powerfull. If it's not all powerfull, then it couldn't possibly have created the universe and all things in it. That's something I don't want to worship.

God made humans with a "freewill", and will NOT violate the will of the person. All bad things in this earth is because the earth was cursed when humans sin. People bring the wrath of God upon themselves...and the sad truth is, some of the innocent are caught in the crossfire. And that, is NOT the will of God. But, it's the will of evil people.

What happens when a person murders someone? That person is judged in the courts and sentenced. Is that judge greater than GOD? No. But, that judge has the authority to hand down a judgment against the murder. Is it wrong that the murderer is punished? Is the law wrong? No. It serves to bring justice and punishment to those who break the law. Are the laws that mere people make and enforce greater than God? No.

God is THE JUDGE over all the earth and over all people. And you're trying to say that God has no right in executing judgment. You're wrong.


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[OneArm]

Earth quakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions. All of these happened on earth, before man inhabited it. So to say these things happen because people sin, is wrong.

Also, your god shouldn't give someone the option to do wrong, then get mad when they do. Plus, this all knowing god knows the option the person is going to take, yet acts surpised and disapointed when it happens.

The idea that such an incompotent creature exists and is supposed to be incharge, is laughable.

[Sapphire]

Originally Posted by OneArm

Earth quakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions. All of these happened on earth, before man inhabited it. So to say these things happen because people sin, is wrong.

Also, your god shouldn't give someone the option to do wrong, then get mad when they do. Plus, this all knowing god knows the option the person is going to take, yet acts surpised and disapointed when it happens.

The idea that such an incompotent creature exists and is supposed to be incharge, is laughable.

Read the Book of Genesis...the first chapter in the Bible. THAT, is when and how the earth/world was created. Not billions of years ago.

God doesn't act surprised or disappointed when people do sin. Jesus is the answer. Most people reject Jesus and continue in sin, and sin brings curses. So, people bring it on themselves.

Why do you think people flee dictatorship and communism? People hate to be controlled and live under a dictator.

If God controlled people and didn't allow anyone a choice...you would call HIM a dictator!



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[OneArm]

What's older, the earth or the universe? I'm asking you, person to person.

Then answer me this, how in the world can you belive the world is only a few thousand years old. And don't say, because the bible says so. The bibles is wrong on so many accounts, what makes this one any different?